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	<title>Comments on: Hey, Newsbusters &#8212; Christians DO commit honor murder</title>
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	<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/</link>
	<description>A Conservative Lesbian</description>
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		<title>By: Stinky</title>
		<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/#comment-2505</link>
		<dc:creator>Stinky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/?p=2645#comment-2505</guid>
		<description>I understand your underlying point, but that is NOT &quot;honor murder.&quot;  My dad wanted to throw me out of the house and did not talk to me for about a year because . . .  I dropped out of graduate school.  Yeah, you read that right. And I was paying the tuition myself.

Parents throw their kids out all the time for all sorts of reasons.  Calling that &quot;murder&quot; diminishes the actual killings that occur in Muslim families.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand your underlying point, but that is NOT &#8220;honor murder.&#8221;  My dad wanted to throw me out of the house and did not talk to me for about a year because . . .  I dropped out of graduate school.  Yeah, you read that right. And I was paying the tuition myself.</p>
<p>Parents throw their kids out all the time for all sorts of reasons.  Calling that &#8220;murder&#8221; diminishes the actual killings that occur in Muslim families.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/#comment-2504</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 01:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/?p=2645#comment-2504</guid>
		<description>And for what it is worth, I do denounce any parent who rejects their child for sexual orientation.  That is no less deplorable than a parent who abuses or neglects their child for any other reason.  That a parent would do so and try to justify the rejection of their child as something &quot;Christian&quot; is just an added level of hypocrisy.

But I do think what is described in this post is relatively rare.  Unfortunately, abused children are not rare, but all too common.  The factors that lead to abuse of children is not caused by Christianity, but a result of ignorance, human weakness, and a degregation of societial civility and responsible behavior.   Or as Christians and other people of faith  like to call it, evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And for what it is worth, I do denounce any parent who rejects their child for sexual orientation.  That is no less deplorable than a parent who abuses or neglects their child for any other reason.  That a parent would do so and try to justify the rejection of their child as something &#8220;Christian&#8221; is just an added level of hypocrisy.</p>
<p>But I do think what is described in this post is relatively rare.  Unfortunately, abused children are not rare, but all too common.  The factors that lead to abuse of children is not caused by Christianity, but a result of ignorance, human weakness, and a degregation of societial civility and responsible behavior.   Or as Christians and other people of faith  like to call it, evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Ad rem</title>
		<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/#comment-2503</link>
		<dc:creator>Ad rem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/?p=2645#comment-2503</guid>
		<description>Peter&#039;s last paragraph says it all...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter&#8217;s last paragraph says it all&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/#comment-2502</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/?p=2645#comment-2502</guid>
		<description>Cynthia, it is not that simple.  I worked in a Salvation Army shelter geared for homeless youth (while I was in college).  I am not saying your scenerio of &quot;Christians&quot; tossing their child out for &quot;sin&quot; is not possible, but I can tell you from listening to these kids&#039; stories it is rarely just the kid is gay and thrown out of the home to fend for him or herself.

Usually the family of the homeless youth is completely disfunctional and the kid leaves because staying there is worse than being on the street (or when the kid leaves they think it is worse).   There is almost always violence, sexual abuse, drugs, alcohol and other serious issues happening in the home.  Occasiaonlly kids go on the street because they are recruited by other kids (as if it was some adventure), but that is relatively rare too and when it happens reality usually causes those kids to head back home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cynthia, it is not that simple.  I worked in a Salvation Army shelter geared for homeless youth (while I was in college).  I am not saying your scenerio of &#8220;Christians&#8221; tossing their child out for &#8220;sin&#8221; is not possible, but I can tell you from listening to these kids&#8217; stories it is rarely just the kid is gay and thrown out of the home to fend for him or herself.</p>
<p>Usually the family of the homeless youth is completely disfunctional and the kid leaves because staying there is worse than being on the street (or when the kid leaves they think it is worse).   There is almost always violence, sexual abuse, drugs, alcohol and other serious issues happening in the home.  Occasiaonlly kids go on the street because they are recruited by other kids (as if it was some adventure), but that is relatively rare too and when it happens reality usually causes those kids to head back home.</p>
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		<title>By: On Homeless Teens. &#124; Little Miss Attila</title>
		<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/#comment-2501</link>
		<dc:creator>On Homeless Teens. &#124; Little Miss Attila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/?p=2645#comment-2501</guid>
		<description>[...] aren&#8217;t all dead, contra Cynthia, and they aren&#8217;t all gay. But they are one of the most neglected and discriminated-against [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] aren&#8217;t all dead, contra Cynthia, and they aren&#8217;t all gay. But they are one of the most neglected and discriminated-against [...]</p>
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		<title>By: LesbianOutsider</title>
		<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/#comment-2500</link>
		<dc:creator>LesbianOutsider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/?p=2645#comment-2500</guid>
		<description>Taking a different tack here...I&#039;m also generally a fan of NCIS.  But this episode was so contrived and so trite, I turned it off half way through.  It was nothing more than reconstituted progressive pap.  How sad that the men and women of Fort Hood are just about forgotten as the media engages in its never-ending &#039;tolerance&#039; teach-ins.

The show also enjoys denigrating the media&#039;s favorite boogie man, the rural white male.  Any time an NCIS episode is staged in a rural setting, you can be sure the slanted, stereotyping will be laid on thick.
.-= LesbianOutsider&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://lesbianconservative.wordpress.com/2009/12/16/glsen-winecoff-jennings-media-matters/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gay Journalist Blasts Safe Schools Czar&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking a different tack here&#8230;I&#8217;m also generally a fan of NCIS.  But this episode was so contrived and so trite, I turned it off half way through.  It was nothing more than reconstituted progressive pap.  How sad that the men and women of Fort Hood are just about forgotten as the media engages in its never-ending &#8216;tolerance&#8217; teach-ins.</p>
<p>The show also enjoys denigrating the media&#8217;s favorite boogie man, the rural white male.  Any time an NCIS episode is staged in a rural setting, you can be sure the slanted, stereotyping will be laid on thick.<br />
.-= LesbianOutsider&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://lesbianconservative.wordpress.com/2009/12/16/glsen-winecoff-jennings-media-matters/" rel="nofollow">Gay Journalist Blasts Safe Schools Czar</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Tinderella</title>
		<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/#comment-2499</link>
		<dc:creator>Tinderella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 03:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/?p=2645#comment-2499</guid>
		<description>As a footnote, this whole post is based on a story at Newsbusters about the plot of a tv show, not a real-life  incident.   Some tv writer dreamed up the idea of a Christian killing his brother who converted to Islam.   This isn&#039;t really surprising as tv writers rarely come up with plots favorable or even fair to Christians.   They obviously have Issues and apparently don&#039;t know many real Christians.    I doubt they know many conservative lesbians, either, largely because they don&#039;t want to know any conservatives or Christians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a footnote, this whole post is based on a story at Newsbusters about the plot of a tv show, not a real-life  incident.   Some tv writer dreamed up the idea of a Christian killing his brother who converted to Islam.   This isn&#8217;t really surprising as tv writers rarely come up with plots favorable or even fair to Christians.   They obviously have Issues and apparently don&#8217;t know many real Christians.    I doubt they know many conservative lesbians, either, largely because they don&#8217;t want to know any conservatives or Christians.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/#comment-2498</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/?p=2645#comment-2498</guid>
		<description>Cynthia, I believe you are talking about pseudo-Christians, the Westboro Baptist  Church types. They not only throw their gay and lesbian kids out they throw their straight kids out when they catch them enaging in sex, minor drug experimentation, etc.

 Christians do not do this, even as poor a Christian as I was taught to hate the sin, love the sinner. Take, for instance, the Patriot Guard riders who stand tall between those Westboro cult types and the families of fallen troops. Most have no particular stance, one way or the other, about Teh Ghey.  Yet they ally themselves with you for this cause.

 I have no particular stance, either. In all my years upon this earth no one has ever asked my permission nor my approval to be  LBGT (I hope I have the alphabet right) so I reckon nobody needs my permission or approval.

 A Christian family would no more throw a kid out of the house for being LBGT than did the Palins throw their daughter out when they found she was pregnant. They thought they had a marriage thing going, then they found that Levi was a weasel. So, they loved their daughter and helped her through, and are still helping her.

 That is a Christian family. The Cheneys, with their lesbian daughter, are a Christian family. They live by that seemingly silly bumper sticker, &quot;Christians aren&#039;t perfect, just forgiven&quot;.

 Slightly OT. If yours were the (beautiful) face of the gay movement instead of those idiots waving their weenies in the gay pride parades, gay marriage would probably be the law in fifty states. And I submit there would be fewer kids thrown away, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cynthia, I believe you are talking about pseudo-Christians, the Westboro Baptist  Church types. They not only throw their gay and lesbian kids out they throw their straight kids out when they catch them enaging in sex, minor drug experimentation, etc.</p>
<p> Christians do not do this, even as poor a Christian as I was taught to hate the sin, love the sinner. Take, for instance, the Patriot Guard riders who stand tall between those Westboro cult types and the families of fallen troops. Most have no particular stance, one way or the other, about Teh Ghey.  Yet they ally themselves with you for this cause.</p>
<p> I have no particular stance, either. In all my years upon this earth no one has ever asked my permission nor my approval to be  LBGT (I hope I have the alphabet right) so I reckon nobody needs my permission or approval.</p>
<p> A Christian family would no more throw a kid out of the house for being LBGT than did the Palins throw their daughter out when they found she was pregnant. They thought they had a marriage thing going, then they found that Levi was a weasel. So, they loved their daughter and helped her through, and are still helping her.</p>
<p> That is a Christian family. The Cheneys, with their lesbian daughter, are a Christian family. They live by that seemingly silly bumper sticker, &#8220;Christians aren&#8217;t perfect, just forgiven&#8221;.</p>
<p> Slightly OT. If yours were the (beautiful) face of the gay movement instead of those idiots waving their weenies in the gay pride parades, gay marriage would probably be the law in fifty states. And I submit there would be fewer kids thrown away, too.</p>
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		<title>By: submandave</title>
		<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/#comment-2497</link>
		<dc:creator>submandave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/?p=2645#comment-2497</guid>
		<description>I do not support a parent disowning a child simply because they are gay, but neither do I support your use of the clearly defined word &quot;murder&quot; as an analogous substitute for the word &quot;disown.&quot;  I understand that your personal life experiences may make this issue hit home a bit harder than for me, but one thing that I believe distinguishes an intelligent conversation, and especially a concervatively advanced argument, is clear and accurate use of language and terms to do so.  Too often the political left use what I call sin-inflation to generate enhanced emotional response against their target, and I uniformly despise it as a crass attempt at manpulation.

I do not accept the substitution of the term &quot;racism&quot; for &quot;disagreeing with a black man,&quot; nor do I accept the substitution of the term &quot;rape&quot; for &quot;I changed my mind the following morning.&quot;  Likewise, I do not accept your substitution of the term &quot;murder&quot; for &quot;wrong-headedly kicking your kid out of the house.&quot;  I believe your argument could be made stronger and more relevent to the average American without the hyperbole.
.-= submandave&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://submandave.blogspot.com/2009/12/one-more-red-nightmare.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;One more red nightmare&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not support a parent disowning a child simply because they are gay, but neither do I support your use of the clearly defined word &#8220;murder&#8221; as an analogous substitute for the word &#8220;disown.&#8221;  I understand that your personal life experiences may make this issue hit home a bit harder than for me, but one thing that I believe distinguishes an intelligent conversation, and especially a concervatively advanced argument, is clear and accurate use of language and terms to do so.  Too often the political left use what I call sin-inflation to generate enhanced emotional response against their target, and I uniformly despise it as a crass attempt at manpulation.</p>
<p>I do not accept the substitution of the term &#8220;racism&#8221; for &#8220;disagreeing with a black man,&#8221; nor do I accept the substitution of the term &#8220;rape&#8221; for &#8220;I changed my mind the following morning.&#8221;  Likewise, I do not accept your substitution of the term &#8220;murder&#8221; for &#8220;wrong-headedly kicking your kid out of the house.&#8221;  I believe your argument could be made stronger and more relevent to the average American without the hyperbole.<br />
.-= submandave&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://submandave.blogspot.com/2009/12/one-more-red-nightmare.html" rel="nofollow">One more red nightmare</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Tinderella</title>
		<link>http://aconservativelesbian.com/2009/12/18/hey-newsbusters-christians-do-honor-murder/#comment-2496</link>
		<dc:creator>Tinderella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/?p=2645#comment-2496</guid>
		<description>The concept that parents have a right, or even a duty, to kill a child who is viewed to have dishonored them is NOT a Christian concept.   The concept that a person has any right to kill another person is NOT a Christian concept, except if it is done in self-defense or in defense of others, which would include military service, though many Christians are opposed to war.   As was pointed out in the comments at Newsbusters, the oft-repeated claims of violence in the Bible ignore the fact that the violence is all in the Old Testament, and the Christians are all in the New Testament.

You wrote: &quot;Christians honor-murder their gay and lesbian teenagers by throwing them out of the house when they discover they are gay or lesbian,&quot; but throwing teenagers out of the house is NOT honor murder, or any kind of murder.  Honor murder is murder done to avenge the parents&#039; honor (really, the father&#039;s honor, because wives can be honor murdered, too) or standing in the community.  It&#039;s done by beheading, running someone over with a car, stabbing, bludgeoning, etc., and it&#039;s done by Muslims, supported by their religion.

Saying &quot;You can&#039;t live in this house any longer&quot; is not murder nor is it done only to gay and lesbian teenagers, or only by Christians.  Plenty of heterosexual teenagers are made to leave home because they are sexually promiscuous, using drugs, selling drugs, running with gangs,  and just generally out of control, refusing to obey their parents.  When parents have tried everything they can think of, often including expensive therapy, to get their kids back on a sane track and nothing has worked, sometimes they tell them to move out in order to save their sanity, their marriage, and their other kids.  Sometimes the kids can go live with other family members.  More often, defiant kids run away of their own volition because they refuse to play by the house rules, thinking they have all the rights and their parents have none.  If you don&#039;t have first hand experience with rebellious teenagers, you can&#039;t comprehend the problems parents experience, or even the ones teachers experience.  It can be very ugly.  When I was growing up, we kids did a lot of sneaking around to do things our parents didn&#039;t approve of but if we got caught we threw themselves on our parents&#039; mercy, rather than telling them they were stupid old fucks who had no right to tell us what to do, as kids do today and have done for many years now.

When kids are out on their own, whether they were made to leave home or ran away, they can get into all sorts of trouble and they can wind up dead, but the same things can happen while they&#039;re still living at home if they are careless about who they associate with, where they go, and what they do.   It is natural for teenagers to make a break with their parents, and they need to do it to become independent.   The problem is that there is no accepted way to do that today.   Back when kids took on apprenticeships at 14, and went to live in their master&#039;s home,  family tension was relieved and the kids were beginning their adult life.  The concept of adolescence hadn&#039;t even been invented.   Childhood led into adulthood around puberty.   Now most kids are at home until they&#039;re at least 17 and they reach puberty earlier so it&#039;s difficult for them and their parents.   What&#039;s the answer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The concept that parents have a right, or even a duty, to kill a child who is viewed to have dishonored them is NOT a Christian concept.   The concept that a person has any right to kill another person is NOT a Christian concept, except if it is done in self-defense or in defense of others, which would include military service, though many Christians are opposed to war.   As was pointed out in the comments at Newsbusters, the oft-repeated claims of violence in the Bible ignore the fact that the violence is all in the Old Testament, and the Christians are all in the New Testament.</p>
<p>You wrote: &#8220;Christians honor-murder their gay and lesbian teenagers by throwing them out of the house when they discover they are gay or lesbian,&#8221; but throwing teenagers out of the house is NOT honor murder, or any kind of murder.  Honor murder is murder done to avenge the parents&#8217; honor (really, the father&#8217;s honor, because wives can be honor murdered, too) or standing in the community.  It&#8217;s done by beheading, running someone over with a car, stabbing, bludgeoning, etc., and it&#8217;s done by Muslims, supported by their religion.</p>
<p>Saying &#8220;You can&#8217;t live in this house any longer&#8221; is not murder nor is it done only to gay and lesbian teenagers, or only by Christians.  Plenty of heterosexual teenagers are made to leave home because they are sexually promiscuous, using drugs, selling drugs, running with gangs,  and just generally out of control, refusing to obey their parents.  When parents have tried everything they can think of, often including expensive therapy, to get their kids back on a sane track and nothing has worked, sometimes they tell them to move out in order to save their sanity, their marriage, and their other kids.  Sometimes the kids can go live with other family members.  More often, defiant kids run away of their own volition because they refuse to play by the house rules, thinking they have all the rights and their parents have none.  If you don&#8217;t have first hand experience with rebellious teenagers, you can&#8217;t comprehend the problems parents experience, or even the ones teachers experience.  It can be very ugly.  When I was growing up, we kids did a lot of sneaking around to do things our parents didn&#8217;t approve of but if we got caught we threw themselves on our parents&#8217; mercy, rather than telling them they were stupid old fucks who had no right to tell us what to do, as kids do today and have done for many years now.</p>
<p>When kids are out on their own, whether they were made to leave home or ran away, they can get into all sorts of trouble and they can wind up dead, but the same things can happen while they&#8217;re still living at home if they are careless about who they associate with, where they go, and what they do.   It is natural for teenagers to make a break with their parents, and they need to do it to become independent.   The problem is that there is no accepted way to do that today.   Back when kids took on apprenticeships at 14, and went to live in their master&#8217;s home,  family tension was relieved and the kids were beginning their adult life.  The concept of adolescence hadn&#8217;t even been invented.   Childhood led into adulthood around puberty.   Now most kids are at home until they&#8217;re at least 17 and they reach puberty earlier so it&#8217;s difficult for them and their parents.   What&#8217;s the answer?</p>
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